12 replies to this topic

[GMO]

Hi All!

We have SEDEX in now and because "audit" is in the title, of course I'm involved.

But as the auditor is asking operators about ethics like "is overtime paid at enhanced rates and voluntary" I'm wondering why they never ask Technical and Quality Managers questions like this...   😒

In all honesty, I'm looking forward to the "right to switch off" eventually being made UK law.  But I suspect I'll be expected to sign away my rights as I do with the working time directive...

[ChristinaK]

We just went through this as well. Our auditors told us that anyone with a Supervisor, Manager, etc. title or who worked at a desk wasn't considered a "worker" by their definition. I understand what they're aiming at, but still...office workers and the like can be exploited too.

 

I'm currently trying to figure out how to tell the auditor that management has no intention of removing the (USA-legal, but not ETI-legal) mandatory overtime policy even though it's never been enforced (so why even have it still?). Our original attempt at a rebuttal was already refused so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[G M]

We just went through this as well. Our auditors told us that anyone with a Supervisor, Manager, etc. title or who worked at a desk wasn't considered a "worker" by their definition. I understand what they're aiming at, but still...office workers and the like can be exploited too.

 

I'm currently trying to figure out how to tell the auditor that management has no intention of removing the (USA-legal, but not ETI-legal) mandatory overtime policy even though it's never been enforced (so why even have it still?). Our original attempt at a rebuttal was already refused so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

They've definitely interviewed office folks for us, but do avoid supervisors and managers.  It does seem strange though, especially the supervisors, they're still hourly and have at least a couple of layers of management over them to be ill treated by.

 

I wouldn't have expected the overtime policy to be a sticking point, you just need to emphasize the "only under exceptional circumstances" part -- the fact that you've never implemented it should make that clearly true.  We have a few technical specialists work ridiculous hours when things go wrong, and the numbers have popped up during auditor reviews of hours worked, but they can see it's just a one-off week or two.

[Tony-C]

Hi All!

We have SEDEX in now and because "audit" is in the title, of course I'm involved.

But as the auditor is asking operators about ethics like "is overtime paid at enhanced rates and voluntary" I'm wondering why they never ask Technical and Quality Managers questions like this...   😒

In all honesty, I'm looking forward to the "right to switch off" eventually being made UK law.  But I suspect I'll be expected to sign away my rights as I do with the working time directive...

 

My last contract abroad included what was supposed to be a 'short management meeting' on a Saturday morning.

 

This turned into an extra 9 - 2 'half-day' on top of a full week of 9am - 6pm. 

 

OT certainly wasn't built-in but at least the salary was tax free.

 

Eventually had enough and voted with my feet. 

[GMO]

My last contract abroad included what was supposed to be a 'short management meeting' on a Saturday morning.

 

This turned into an extra 9 - 2 'half-day' on top of a full week of 9am - 6pm. 

 

OT certainly wasn't built-in but at least the salary was tax free.

 

Eventually had enough and voted with my feet. 

 

WHAAAAA????  That's ridiculous!

What has happened to the world of food?  I mean during Covid I'd drop on the odd call over a weekend, mostly out of nothing else to do and wanting to support the team.  

I'm so tired and fed up.  Sadly the "right to switch off" doesn't look like it will get anywhere near parliament this session.  While the intent on other rights has been published, this was noticeably absent from the "er perhaps in 2 years time" list and in the "when we get the chance / if you vote us in again" one. 

[beautiophile]

We just went through this as well. Our auditors told us that anyone with a Supervisor, Manager, etc. title or who worked at a desk wasn't considered a "worker" by their definition. I understand what they're aiming at, but still...office workers and the like can be exploited too.

 

 

 

I read somewhere saying that SEDEX stakeholders had done ethical vulnerability/risk assessments on generic employees. Low-education workers are more vulnerable to employers' enslaving treatments (e.g. forced OT) than management-level or hi-tech personnel; because the latter is likely smarter, well educated and able to check situations & defend themselves.

Risk-based auditing would focus on high risk items, so auditors often overlook managers in these topics. 

Edited by beautiophile, 11 October 2024 - 05:07 AM.

[Dorothy87]

 

 

 

Sedex, Smeta.. they are BLIND, honesty BLIND to the environment where the low income operators are working. They should have a power to close production if they see any H&S concerns..for example lack of dust extractor.. or even silly things like canteens quality..

 

I was used by managers for years, then I realised that nobody will come and ask how I am doing, how many hours I have done (salary case - so they won`t pay for overtimes) NOBODY. World is not a fair place, so I stopped being available, and this is nothing to do with me,  I am ENOUGH.. 

 

My only advise is to switch from high risk manufacture to low risk and avoid manufacturers producing for retailers 

[Scampi]

I too used to work 60-70 hour weeks, and then one day I did the math and decided what my time was actually worth to me

 

Now, outside of emergencies and audits, i have firm boundaries. Oh look it's 4:30 see ya tomorrow!!!

 

Part of this though, is having a fully trained team that WILL do the right thing when you're not there

[GMO]

 

 

Sedex, Smeta.. they are BLIND, honesty BLIND to the environment where the low income operators are working. They should have a power to close production if they see any H&S concerns..for example lack of dust extractor.. or even silly things like canteens quality..

 

I was used by managers for years, then I realised that nobody will come and ask how I am doing, how many hours I have done (salary case - so they won`t pay for overtimes) NOBODY. World is not a fair place, so I stopped being available, and this is nothing to do with me,  I am ENOUGH.. 

 

My only advise is to switch from high risk manufacture to low risk and avoid manufacturers producing for retailers 

 

Oh this is SO interesting as a view.

 

I tell you now, SMETA / SEDEX are not blind and they can create pain for senior leaders, BUT they're not a legislative requirement.  Where I'd place the onus on closing down sites for things like you mention would be EHOs.

But sadly I can tell you know I've worked in both retailer branded and branded in the UK.  The grass isn't greener in either.  

[GMO]

 

Part of this though, is having a fully trained team that WILL do the right thing when you're not there

 

Tell me about it... That's work in progress...

[Dorothy87]

Oh this is SO interesting as a view.

 

I tell you now, SMETA / SEDEX are not blind and they can create pain for senior leaders, BUT they're not a legislative requirement.  Where I'd place the onus on closing down sites for things like you mention would be EHOs.

But sadly I can tell you know I've worked in both retailer branded and branded in the UK.  The grass isn't greener in either.  

 

I am ex EHO.. :D  and is hard to close site when the owner is supporting local community...(but this is a different topic) 

yes, smeta/sedex can be a pain especially when they are in connection with retailers, but I was in a deep shock when Smeta left the site without NC knowing that the bakery site has no dust extractor..  

[GMO]

I am ex EHO.. :D  and is hard to close site when the owner is supporting local community...(but this is a different topic) 

yes, smeta/sedex can be a pain especially when they are in connection with retailers, but I was in a deep shock when Smeta left the site without NC knowing that the bakery site has no dust extractor..  

 

I think you have to understand the scope of the SEDEX audit.  While EHS IS in scope, it's actually a pretty small part of it.  They are also not normally real EHS experts either.

If you think about it the scope of SEDEX is HUGE.  It includes your controls on the ethics of your supply chain, your ethical policies, environment, payroll, breaks, compliance with AWR, agency staff ethics, people who supply services to your site, their policies, procedures, their hiring practices as well, not just your own.  Oh it goes on and on and on.  And they're meant to cover all of this in sometimes a day or two in a big site when the majority of that is going to be worker interviews.  So I'm really not surprised they don't find something like that but if they did find it and didn't raise it due to some kind of pally relationship, that's another question and one which deserves a bit of whistleblowing.

[G M]

... I was in a deep shock when Smeta left the site without NC knowing that the bakery site has no dust extractor..  

 

They're like any other auditor.  Each has some pet peeves or odd focus on one rule or category, while being seemingly blind to other problems.

 

One of ours that we saw for several years had a fascination with fire exits, the last one seemed oblivious to them.