22 replies to this topic

[kconf]

Hey all,

Just had a BRCGS audit. One of the NC's was that we do not test our metal detectable pens, band-aids, earplugs etc. on all four metal detectors in our confectionary - we only do it on one to test their ability. Is this legit? I could not find such requirement in BRCGS guide. 

 

Thank you! 

[nwilson]

If you have different test size pieces used on each MD, different calibration settings, or there are models/makes that are vastly different I can see this as being a valid comment.  If these do not apply then one MD should be sufficient.  Are you testing each new lot of pens, ear plugs, and plasters?  

[kconf]

They differ slightly in size/settings. Yes, we test each new lot upon prior to use. 

I thought as long as all MDs are working properly (validated, calibrated) any one can be used. Isn't it like testing products on all MD's? 

The supplies (band-aids, pens, earplugs) do not say which MD it would work on and which it would not on. 

[nwilson]

Since the MD's differ in size I would start building data that each MD is rejecting all these items. Once you have a solid case you can then use the one with the largest test size piece or least sensitive.  That way you've shown that the homework has been done and can back up why you only use one MD for the testing.      

[chrisrushworth]

Need to validate then verify that the MD bits and bobs you have purchased will be detected by your MD's are the settings.

Should verify them every time you change the parameters to ensure they are still sensitive enough.

 

Auditor last year, also advised that any metal potential fb's should also be "challenged" through the MD's.. ie conveyor bolts to ensure that the sensitivity of the MDs will detect...

 

What did you MD technicians (Loma?) do on the annual calibration? Saturation as well as test pieces? Cause that one thing we got an NC for...

[Dorothy87]

 

 

hi 

 

7.2.4 Where metal detection equipment is used, a sample from each batch of plasters shall be successfully tested through the equipment and records shall be kept

BRC interpretation ; 

 

If multiple metal detectors are used on site, it is good practice to use a risk assessment to identify the least sensitive detector, as using this will ensure that a lost plaster can be detected by all of the detectors on site.

 

For example you know that you have 4  MD

[Dorothy87]

hi 

 

7.2.4 Where metal detection equipment is used, a sample from each batch of plasters shall be successfully tested through the equipment and records shall be kept

 

BRC interpretation ; 

 

If multiple metal detectors are used on site, it is good practice to use a risk assessment to identify the least sensitive detector, as using this will ensure that a lost plaster can be detected by all of the detectors on site.

 

For example you know that you have 4 MD`s, validate them against each plaster size (see attached) 

Most of MDs shall detect plaster, pens etc - if not contact your supplier.  This risk assessment will prove that you can test new batches with any MD

 

same with metal detectable pens, markers, ear plugs, calculators etc. 

Attached Files

•  MD.jpg   41.52KB   0 downloads

[kconf]

Silly question, but - how do I figure out sensitivity of metal detectors? 

[chrisrushworth]

Silly question, but - how do I figure out sensitivity of metal detectors? 

 

Have you got the instruction guides for the metal detector?

 

Each one has different ways to set up the frequency... control panel then + / - till the sticks do not alarm then go back one stage and check again.

Need to do with no product running through, then with product (if inline - nearest to centre of aperture is classed as the least sensitive) if boxed - consider where to place the test piece (underneath/inside/on-top) dependant on size of box/aperture.

 

Your metal detection contractor who services the MD's should be able to clarify.

 

What type of product are you testing?

[kconf]

chocolate products. 

[kconf]

Am I understanding this correctly - the one with the biggest test piece size is the least sensitive? 

[Scampi]

Am I understanding this correctly - the one with the biggest test piece size is the least sensitive? 

 

You are correct, hence the larger test piece    that is the SMALLEST of that metal (assuming it's SS) that can be detected by your machine

[kconf]

I just verified the sizes of all 4 MDs. 3 of them are 1.8mm for SS, and one is 2mm SS. Does it mean the 2mm one is the least sensitive? 

And why do we disregard Fe and Non-Fe? 

[chrisrushworth]

I just verified the sizes of all 4 MDs. 3 of them are 1.8mm for SS, and one is 2mm SS. Does it mean the 2mm one is the least sensitive? 

And why do we disregard Fe and Non-Fe? 

 

Complete an RA.

Are there any ferrous parts to machinery?

What packaging is used?

 

I suggest you consult your metal detector servicing company (Loma/Westward instruments) for advice..

 

Re-look at what was used to initiate the MD's into service as they will have used a large range of test pieces to identify the best for your machines?

Do you know what brand/model number md's you have?

[kconf]

Without going into settings, can I conclude that 2mm SS one is the least sensitive based on the size alone? 

[chrisrushworth]

Without going into settings, can I conclude that 2mm SS one is the least sensitive based on the size alone? 

 

As an auditor.. what would you expect to see ???

 

What cant speak cant lie …. Documented evidence is best...

[chrisrushworth]

Without going into settings, can I conclude that 2mm SS one is the least sensitive based on the size alone? 

 

https://www.loma.com...ces/test-pieces   Test Pieces

Performance testing of metal detection and x-ray inspection systems is an essential part of quality management and ensures your production line is compliant. Associations including HACCP, BRC, IFS etc. and quality management systems such as ISO 9000 requires that the systems which are installed at critical control points (CCP) are routinely QA tested with the results documented. This is achieved using full calibrated test pieces.

All of LOMA's® test pieces are made from the highest quality food grade materials, colour-coded for easy identification and are supplied with certification for full traceability

How do I know what size test pieces to use?
Test piece sizes are can be determined by your customer, a code of practice or based on your own internal processes for the CCP following sensitivity testing on your machine and product. Many factors can affect the desired size including product size & effect (wet/dry etc), aperture size and machine sensitivity.

What types of test pieces are there?
Test pieces come in various types and sizes depending on the application requirement. LOMA SYSTEMS® provide the following types:

• Stainless steel, ferrous & non-ferrous test sticks, flexible wands, balls & discs for metal detection
• Stainless steel, glass, ceramic test wands for X-Ray Inspection

[kconf]

The auditor himself is asking me which one is least sensitive. Here's some info.

 

4 total MDs.

 

3 lines - 1 MD on each line

1 Packaging MD

 

All products are chocolate. 

[kconf]

Another silly question - which metal is typically used in bandages, pens, earplugs? 

[jfrey123]

The auditor himself is asking me which one is least sensitive. Here's some info.

 

4 total MDs.

 

3 lines - 1 MD on each line

1 Packaging MD

 

All products are chocolate. 

 

If those line detectors are testing the product in a stream (actual product), they're almost certainly more sensitive than a detector designed to scan full cases.  Aperture size is a factor of sensitivity.  As others have stated, the models you have that document detecting smaller pieces are the most sensitive of your system.  This info should be available in the operation manual.

 

 

Another silly question - which metal is typically used in bandages, pens, earplugs? 

 

I think the bandaids usually use stainless steel (medical grade and all), while pens and earplugs and others use cheap steel to save on costs.  It's been forever since I looked at specs for this kind of stuff, but the brand you're using in-house should be able to provide you information about the detectable piece embedded.

[kconf]

Thank you, Jfrey. 

So when looking at the sizes, which one should I be paying attention to? 

 

Metal Detector

Make

Serial #

Capacity Fe

Capacity NFe

Capacity SS

A 

Safeline

 

1.5 mm

1.5 mm

2.0 mm

B 

Loma Lock

 

1.5 mm

1.5 mm

1.8 mm

C 

Loma Lock

 

1.5 mm

1.5 mm

1.8 mm

Packaging 

Eriez Xtreme

 

1.2 mm

1.5 mm

1.8 mm

 

For packaging, we typically do 12 oz to 32 oz bags on belt. 

[chrisrushworth]

Thank you, Jfrey. 

So when looking at the sizes, which one should I be paying attention to? 

 

Metal Detector

Make

Serial #

Capacity Fe

Capacity NFe

Capacity SS

A 

Safeline

 

1.5 mm

1.5 mm

2.0 mm

B 

Loma Lock

 

1.5 mm

1.5 mm

1.8 mm

C 

Loma Lock

 

1.5 mm

1.5 mm

1.8 mm

Packaging 

Eriez Xtreme

 

1.2 mm

1.5 mm

1.8 mm

 

For packaging, we typically do 12 oz to 32 oz bags on belt. 

 

 

Contact your metal detector manufacturer for a copy of operational manual.

 

Contact you servicing company for details of tests performed.

 

Contact you metal-detectable supplier (ie detect mate (pens)) to have the specification of the items sent, this will include the information required.

 

Alot of these can be found with a simple "google" search and then can download BUT all the evidence you collect will be able to be used for the close out, so i would contact manufacturers/sellers to ensure that all the info you are providing is correct.

 

I assume you have 28 days for the close out?

[Swiftee]

Hello,

We test 25% of items we buy, for example 25% of the MD pens in a box of pens, 25% of plasters in a box. This is written into a procedure and we have a record sheet for each item, each box is signed as checked before given to production. This is checked via a hand held metal detector.

 

Annually we check our MD's using the attached sheet. Hopefully this will help you get an idea of the sort of thing you need to do. Not sure what sort of product you do but for us we place the items in our marked test packs with product in and put them through in the different positions as per the sheet.

 

Any questions let me know.

Attached Files

•  MD Verification.docx   104.13KB   9 downloads

Edited by Swiftee, 06 September 2024 - 08:17 AM.