4 replies to this topic

[irheavyd]

We probably have the most inspected plant just about anywhere.  We make so many different products and our processes are so complex that this is the training ground for new inspectors.  We currently have USDA on site 24 hours a day.  We have had the same inspectors now for many years.  One of them has some kind of power trip that is out of control.  I am curious as to what are they actually allowed to do and not to do.  Here is a list of the things he does that I think is totally out of line.

 

1.  Tells people what to do, as in, tells us to change logs and forms to fit what he wants.

2.  Takes our HACCP Binders out of the office into there office and keeps them for extended periods of time.  (Currently has had SOP for 14 hours now.

3.  Takes pictures on a constant basis. (takes pictures of a clerical error and waits  for someone to change it and then says we are forging numbers.

4.  Has become friends with employees. (The employees think he is there friend when he is actually using them for info or to change things to fit what he wants.

5.  Has lied to plant owner and his front line supervisor about employees being aggressive so that they are excluded from dealing with USDA.

6.  Has called employees liers in front of multiple people.

7.  Issues demands without showing proof or support for anything he is saying.

 

The list goes on and on.  Just looking for some verification of what I think already

[G M]

USDA inspectors are people.  Some of them are awful.

 

A few things on your list can be expected though, with some interpretation. 

(1.) requesting changes -- this might be better than the alternative; if the IIC doesn't believe your programs provide sufficient verification or validation he can have inspection withdrawn or place regulatory holds on material.  The details of what kind of changes, and how the "request" are being made can make a big difference here.

 

(2.) reviewing your programs and policies -- pretty normal; if you don't like him taking the binder, you can let them know they can request a copy, but you'll be expected to provide one within a relatively short time frame.  Make sure someone is always available to provide copies of the policies he's interested in, or capable of answering the questions.

 

(3.) taking pictures of your process or production area -- this can be a huge no-no, IF you have a clear policy on electronic devices in the production area that he has been made aware of and is in violation of.  

 

-- if one of our inspectors really wants someone to record something, they'll ask one of the authorized personnel to take a pic that can be referenced in a meeting with the plant manager or whoever later.  It rarely happens.  Usually they just do a good job describing it in an NR.

 

(4.- 7.) social manipulation ~ hard one to prove, and about the only thing you can do is train your people to give noncommittal boilerplate answers.  Being hostile or punitive about it is likely to backfire.  The best counter to lies is to clearly document everything said, done, or exchanged. 

 

If you really have a problem with him there are options to make formal complaints, but unless you have a long history of challenges in your favor or smoking gun evidence of misconduct you will probably have to keep putting up with him -- and an inspector in a bad mood who is determined to cause you trouble probably doesn't have to try that hard to find little nit-pick things to repeatedly give you NR's or place things on temporary regulatory holds.

[Scotty_SQF]

Agree with the above.  Unless you have definitive and documented proof, it will be hard to go up the chain on him and then you will have a bigger issue with him.

[Scampi]

CFIA not USDA, but very similar situation

 

Binders being held for days (not hours) on end, quoting regulations that didn't apply etc etc

 

 

I did go up the chain and the inspector was disciplined HOWEVER it was made very clear in a joint meeting with his boss the ANY retribution would  = termination

 

In another instance I had a similar issue with the VIC, but almost worse because he wouldn't issue export permits for us because he didn't understand what was actually required, again, got the inspection manager involved

 

Not sure about USDA, but for CFIA the trump card was always that they were restricting the business-it is part of the regulatory mandate to support trade

 

 

So depending on your relationship (if there is one) with the inspectors manager, it may or may not be worth it

 

As to the cell phone---inspectors use electronic devices, so that dog won't hunt, but entrapment by a regulatory body is a no go

[FSQA-USDA]

1.  Tells people what to do, as in, tells us to change logs and forms to fit what he wants.

- Inspector can't tell you what to do, however if the inspector finds a noncompliance in your programs that inspector might "suggest" or "recommend" changes prior to documenting a noncompliance (this is being nice, because they can easily just document the NR). If you believe the inspector is wrong, then let the inspector write a noncompliance and then "Appeal" it. The appeal forces the inspector to "reconsider", if the regulations cited suggest noncompliance then it goes up to FLS, then up a chain of command that reviews it.

 

2.  Takes our HACCP Binders out of the office into there office and keeps them for extended periods of time.  (Currently has had SOP for 14 hours now)

- You can provide a copy of the programs, or you can make it clear that the HACCP binder, SSOP, and SOP binders should only be accessed in a certain area, for example the QA Office or the conference room. You might also want to consider a designated desktop with no internet access that has a pdf file for al programs, this allows access to review programs and is always accessible.

 

3.  Takes pictures on a constant basis. (takes pictures of a clerical error and waits  for someone to change it and then says we are forging numbers.

- 9 CFR 417.5, 9 CFR 418.4, 9 CFR 320.4 allows inspectors to "copy" certain programs and records. I would agree that a picture would fall under "copying" but that is my opinion.

 

4.  Has become friends with employees. (The employees think he is there friend when he is actually using them for info or to change things to fit what he wants.

- This one is common, humans make connections. Employees will share information or complaints to inspectors hoping for inspectors to bring changes. Maybe have a meeting with employees about focusing on their duties instead of gossiping.

 

5.  Has lied to plant owner and his front line supervisor about employees being aggressive so that they are excluded from dealing with USDA.

- One of the top reasons that FLS's are involved besides the obvious food safety and sanitation is "intimidation". If the inspector felt "intimidated" then that inspector reaches out to FLS who then proceeds to ask for a full Memorandum of Interview of all events. The FLS will then reach out to District and within hours a Notice of Intent Enforcement can be issued where "inspection is withheld" until the establishment finds a solution. If none of this happened then the inspector did not report anything and that inspector cannot just avoid dealing with certain employees. 

 

6.  Has called employees liars in front of multiple people.

- Skip

 

7.  Issues demands without showing proof or support for anything he is saying.

- Define "demands". Again, as per #1, inspectors cannot tell you what to do. If there is a noncompliance, they should issue an NR citing 9 CFR citations that support that finding. Thus that 9 CFR citation should be the proof or support. If that citation is invalid, then appealing is the best choice, that appeal will easily be granted. One more thing, inspectors are not required to provide documentation to prove their point (sounds odds I know), it is the establishment’s duty or the consultant’s duty to support compliance or to appeal the noncompliance. Now if this inspector is always using verbal warning and doesn’t write any NRs then you should be happy because none of that is getting documented.

Edited by FSQA-USDA, 02 July 2024 - 09:37 PM.