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GMO

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Posted 14 May 2024 - 10:12 AM

I still feel like ATP swabs are an emperors new clothes thing.  Especially as depending on the type some don't pick up AMP or ADP and most will pick up ATP from dead cells.  

 

For me it comes back to what you're trying to do with these and why you think visual cleaning standards are not sufficient.  (Not saying they are, just asking you to ask the question.)

So for example, you have a cleaning process and on some well designed equipment you get a borderline result on traditional micro swabbing or your allergen or species swabbing results are inconsistent.  Or you are concerned about the reproducibility of your cleans perhaps due to operator competence.  You might decide that you want a less subjective method to confirm clean or not.

BUT I would go in a completely different direction.  So for example, why are you getting that borderline result?  Is your machinery old, getting pitted and damaged?  Would getting it repolished solve the issue so it's fixed for good?  Would automating part of the clean improve it and make it more reproducible?

The ONLY time I've introduced rapid swabbing was for allergens and it was because of repeated incidents so that I had something which I felt was more "black and white" as evidence.  But even then it was actually mitigating for poor design and (let's face it) a bit of a tick box.  Just because I had a swab result recorded, doesn't mean that swab was even taken or taken from a sensible location.

I think everyone will know by now, I'm not a believer!   :roflmao:   But genuinely, if the suppliers are messing you about with supply, if the cost is vast...  I cannot understand why more people aren't questioning "why am I doing this?" 

Question:  If the supply stopped tomorrow and you couldn't get any for 6 months, would you shut your factory?  If not...  Whatever you'd do instead, it's worth thinking if that should be plan A not plan B in my view.



jfrey123

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Posted 14 May 2024 - 03:57 PM

I think picking up dead cells on an ATP swab is a feature, not a bug.  ATP is supposed to be showing presence of protein, living or dead is irrelevant, as dead cells left over are still an indicator of a dirty surface.  We use it purely as a clean indicator, but base our sanitation validations on APC (which plenty of people find fault with as well, but auditors love it).

 

It get the pushback many have, but love it or hate it ATP is loved by auditors for the verifiability of cleanliness.  Visual inspections are hard to sell on auditors, as they leave interpretations open to the person doing the visual.  Any many of us are in an industry where leftover residues can leave something visually clean while there is legitimately a layer of leftover material remaining.



Scampi

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Posted 17 May 2024 - 01:35 PM

I also use ATP results to justify my sanitation crew working 6 nights a week instead of 5

 

DRASTIC improvement when we added an additional day dedicated to deep clean tasks that have a direct correlation to our routine swab results

 

Visually clean is 100% subjective and folks go blind after doing days and days and days of pre op on the same stuff

 

Do not under estimate the value of DATA and you can use it a driver for change

 

Not sure that I would ever trust someone's visual inspection of a poultry grinding process---------swab reaches places your eyes cannot see


Please stop referring to me as Sir/sirs


PrplomSolved

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Posted 17 May 2024 - 03:26 PM

Anyone else still struggling to get access to Neogen/3M's ATP and Allergan kits? 

 

I know our rep in Georgia basically sent us to one of their direct suppliers (Nelson Jameson) for the time being. Especially for the MDS kits because they just changed the logo on them :)

 

They hopefully will bounce back soon!


Austin N.

Principal Laboratory Technician 

AEMTEK Athens


Rick Reyes

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Posted 18 May 2024 - 03:08 PM

I have had Neogen for years and always found them very helpful and responsive in the past, after the merger with 3M everything changed. Before Neogen always answered their phones and never sent you to voice mail or an automated directory, if they did send you to a specific persons voice mail there was always a prompt reply. Boy have things changed for the worse, they discontinued some items that were part of micro lab safety programs. One of the things that I loved about Neogen was that they did trainings for our employees in languages other than English, that seems to have fallen by the way side too. Now getting what you ordered when you need it that truly has suffered a serious set back, I used to get swabs I ordered on Monday by Wednesday morning, 3M always was a little longer lead time but now you have to verify that you received the correct petrifilm plates, somehow they get their numbers crossed and we wind up with items that can't be returned. I hope that they figure it out and get back to being the friendly company that they used to be.



jokeywap23

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Posted 10 June 2024 - 03:37 PM

how are things looking for everyone now? we've still been struggling... would've assumed it would have improved by now. we also got a price increase alert on the little we have been able to procure... did they hike price on you guys too?



MattQA

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Posted 10 June 2024 - 04:37 PM

We haven't seen the price hike. We started ordering online now because our rep has been unresponsive. Most allergen kits took two days to get here and one was backordered for a week. This is a vast improvement over our experience right after the merger.  



spacemonkey

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Posted 11 June 2024 - 04:01 PM

I have sources for certain Neogen products from places other then Neogen.  I got tired of constantly wondering if I would have to shut down due to key items not arriving in a reasonable amount of time. So far I have sourced RVS Broth, Butterfields, TSB, and Coagustaph all from original manufacturer used by Neogen.  Lets combine resources, anyone else have alternatives to being slaves to Neogen?



Aartisharma98

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Posted 11 June 2024 - 04:02 PM

I have sources for certain Neogen products from places other then Neogen.  I got tired of constantly wondering if I would have to shut down due to key items not arriving in a reasonable amount of time. So far I have sourced RVS Broth, Butterfields, TSB, and Coagustaph all from original manufacturer used by Neogen.  Lets combine resources, anyone else have alternatives to being slaves to Neogen?

3M , HYGIENA those are other alternatives



spacemonkey

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Posted 11 June 2024 - 04:07 PM

3M , HYGIENA those are other alternatives

3M is Neogen as of about what 2 years ago now. What does Hygiena make?



spacemonkey

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Posted 11 June 2024 - 04:08 PM

3M is Neogen as of about what 2 years ago now. What does Hygiena make?

Sorry for second response, Edge Biologicals makes BFB, TSB and RVS among other things.





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