Subcontractors for Direct Food Contact Packaging

We are the manufacturer for indirect food contact packaging and any direct food contact work is farmed out.  

We are preparing for SQF initial certification and I assume the contract manufacturer we send direct contact work to would have to have some level of food safety certification to provide us with. Correct?

Sorry, but you don't know that yet? They are already co-packing and you don't have any documentation onsite?

What about their allergen management plan, the general food safety system? 

But to answer your question, yes they should be GFSI certified

Even without SQF, you should have asked for food safety documentation for the copacker

Yes I do know that.  I can recite this code in my sleep.  Unfortunately working with a team that second guesses every part of the code because of the indirect nature requires me to obtain additional confirmation of what I already know to be true.   The Pre-assessment auditor put in their heads that because we are indirect a lot will not apply (such as GMP for hairnets and beardnets).etc...

Your response is however not in line with my question.  We are not packers and do not farm out to co-packers. Hence the sentence that reads we are "MANUFACTURERS" of food packaging. We are box makers and will have to farm out any boxes that are direct contact to another box making company.  

I was using the broad sense of co-packing. They are making a finished good on your behalf, even someone who manufactured food for me outside of my facility is both a copacker and the manufacturer

I did state, that yes, they should be GFSI certified to some scheme or another and you should have a copy of the most recent certificate on file. 

The company you farm out work to is either a Contract Manufacturer or a Supplier.

Contract manufacturing simply means they are making items for you based on your specs and for all intents and purposes the item would appear to come from you - as in, has your company name on it, etc.

If a true contract manufacturer, check your SQF code for specifics on what is required - basically they must be same as your company - as in GFSI certified, SQF would be nice, but any GFSI certification would be fine plus they must provide you with everything per the contract manufacturer code.

However, it doesn't sound like this is a contract manufacturer - if not, just a supplier and needs to follow your approved supplier program but would include getting all of their food safety info too.

As expected, another pointless meeting regarding the plant we farm out direct food packaging work to.

Management is still trying to say the plants we send it to don't have to be GFSI, SQF if the customer doesn't require it.

Isn't that the whole point of FSMA and SQF?  Food Customers are requiring it because regulatory agencies are requiring it.

I don't know how to effectively impress this upon people who don't want to believe it.

We also send work out for stamping, embossing, etc....  what's the point of being a GMP, SQF certified packaging manufacturer if we just send 

WIP out to a plant that has no standards at all.  

oh peacequeen I feel your pain!

If your customer doesn't require it, and the company doesn't see the value to capture new business than I'm afraid you will continue to preach to the choir as it were