7 replies to this topic

[ottersteve]

Hello there,

 

Just had our first food safety audit since opening our new pub 2 months ago. Regrettably, the inspector gave us a score of 1 (out of a possible 5) because our paperwork was insufficient. She (the inspector) admitted that HAD said paperwork been acceptable, a score of 4 (out of 5) was likely.

 

Conclusion?   The paperwork is more important than the cleanliness of the facilities.

 

I also have a few questions that I would like answered if possible.

 

1 - What does the “points” system of judging consist of – i.e. where is the list of points for each item that the inspector checks?

 

2 – The inspector had left us a safety manual / diary to be filled in during  previous advisory visit  -    what if the person who completes this book, then decides to leave the job soon after filling it in. Does the new cook get a fresh book to complete?

 

3 – Who is the ombudsman for the food safety dept?

 

4 – Does the inspector simply act as judge, jury and executioner during the inspection – if so how do I know that the “personal feelings” of the inspector do not play a part in the outcome.

 

5 – Given that records can be easily falsified – what is the point of keeping daily fridge/freezer temperature history? Who is actually going to be stupid enough to record unacceptable temperatures.

 

I would be interested to hear other members comments on my questions.

 

[Charles.C]

Dear ottersteve,

 

Welcome to the forum !

 

Not in UK myself so cannot offer much personally however, just for clarification to other people, I guess this is unrelated to SQF forum where posted. No problem.

 

Is the audit  within the (retail) Safer Food Better Business system, a  routine EHO audit , a part of (Welsh) Scores on Doors type system or ?

 

Regardless, as you deduced,  the documentation is indeed likely to be critical.

 

We have several UK posters here, including Wales, so hopefully some responses soon.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[cazyncymru]

Hi Otter Steve

 

Your right, the paperwork is all important, as well as the hygiene standards of your kitchen etc.

 

What you must remember is, the paperwork is your due diligence defence if something were to go horribly wrong. And lets be honest here, you may get a customer who will try it on. Just because we're in industry, doesn't mean we don't get them too.

 

You need to keep records of deliveries, Use By dates, Storage temperatures etc, exactly like we do in industry. You need to record what you used and when. This is your traceability. I agree with what you say about falsifying records, but get caught out, well I'm sure you know what the fines/ consequences are.

 

The EHO who conducted your inspection knows what their doing. they probably inspect hundreds of premises a year, from schools, care homes, shops, butchers, pubs and manufacturing units. Your best bet is to get on side with them, there really is no point in falling out with them, you won't win.

 

Cazx

[Setanta]

As I kept hearing during my first years of Quality work...indeed any manufacturing work, If it isn't documented, it didn't happen. 

 

Did the freezer inspection occur in July?

Yes.

Proof?

None.

Evidence that it was done correctly?

There isn't any....Same with the temperatures, everything.

 

Sorry, it is a hard lesson.

[Ian R]

Hi Ottersteve

As others have said the documentation is only evidence you have should you ever find yourself in court trying to prove you have done everything right.

To repeat the point above - if it isn't recorded then it didn't happen, doesn't matter what you say, you need the records

 

Yes - paperwork can be falsified but you can caught with that as well.

 

You do have the right of appeal, but I would advise not wasting time on it.

And yes the Inspector is Judge, Jury and Executioner, I'm afraid thats how it works.

 

When the new law is enacted (probably Nov 13) you will be required to display your Food Hygiene Rating so that customers can see it before they enter the premises.

As you will appreciate a score of 1 will not do your business any good.

 

I'm don't know where in Wales you are, but in North Wales, where I am, approx. 82% of all food outlets have a 4 or 5 rating.

So the inspectors are not being 'harsh', if anything they are generally quite lenient and accommodating.

 

What can you do?

I would recommend that you put in place ASAP all the recommendation that the Inspector has asked for.

You need to become familiar with the what the inspection covers and how the Scores on the Doors is actually scored.

 

Then write to the local authority formally requesting a re-audit.

In your request you should include details of all the actions you have taken to rectify the situation.

This needs to be in sufficient detail so that the EHO can decide if you have done enough and if a re-audit is worthwhile

 

You probably won't get re-audited for about 3 months.

The legislation does put some indicative timescales on these processes.

 

If you need any more information or any guidance on what the scores on doors requires please contact me.

Theres a bit too much to try and put into a post here.

(foodassist@btinternet.com)

 

rgds

[cazyncymru]

Hi Ottersteve

 

This is the Code Of Practice (Wales) that the EHO will be following

 

Regards

 

Caz x

Attached Files

•  copwales.pdf   1.4MB   21 downloads

[Jo Deakin]

Its an auditors old saying " If it's not documented, then it didn't happen."

 

 The proof is in the pudding!  Always ensure you have documented proof. 

 

Regards

 

Jo 

[BarrieT]

Worth mentioning too, perhaps, is the fact that the scoring system is purposely designed in effect to 'weight' the score for 'Confidence in Management'.  The other two scores which contribute to your hygiene rating have options of 0, 5, 10, 15, 20 and 30, whereas the C in M score has options 0, 5, 10, 20, 30.  This effectively forces the inspecting officer to make a choice between 10 and 20 here, and if he/she plumps for 20, the maximum hygiene rating you can get is 1.

 

Harsh, I know, but it gives a clear indication of how much emphasis the Govt is placing on the paperwork!

 

Having said that, I think that the EHO was being harsh, as I only give the 20 score if there is a history of non-compliance or a wilful disregard of the requirement, because the Confidence in Management score should not be devoted entirely to the paperwork - there is an element within it of 'past compliance'.  And as you've only been there 2 months or so, there is no 'history' to go by!

 

As previously posted, you could appeal, but if I were you I'd take it on the chin and put your effort into getting your act together rather than wasting it arguing an appeal which is unlikely to bring fruit, going by what I've wtnessed so far in appeals around the UK.

 

Good luck, hope the rating hits 4 or preferably 5 soon!!

Edited by BarrieT, 08 August 2013 - 09:44 AM.