Ridiculous Supplier questionnaire
I'm working for QA department and part of my job is responding to our customers self assessment questionnaire. I don't know how I should respond to customer who asked me in that questionnaire to attached a copy of my procedures that I think are intellectual property of my company. The last one has one page of documents to enclosed. In my opinion ridiculous. If I would attached all this it will be about 100 pages of documents. And yet they asked for copy of HACCP - what should I sent ? All HACCP documentations (50 pages at least) ?? I understand that they are some important things like CCP but asking for all HACCP !
We are accredited against BRC standard and sending certificate should be sufficient but it's not for most customers. They asking for certificate and then sending form with questions that are covered by BRC standards anyway.
But without customers our business wouldn't survive so How to satisfied them ? How you deal with questionnaire like this ? Am I right to say NO for sending procedures. I'm sure they wouldn't even read them.
Thanks for all opinion
Betty
Hi
I'm working for QA department and part of my job is responding to our customers self assessment questionnaire. I don't know how I should respond to customer who asked me in that questionnaire to attached a copy of my procedures that I think are intellectual property of my company. The last one has one page of documents to enclosed. In my opinion ridiculous. If I would attached all this it will be about 100 pages of documents. And yet they asked for copy of HACCP - what should I sent ? All HACCP documentations (50 pages at least) ?? I understand that they are some important things like CCP but asking for all HACCP !
We are accredited against BRC standard and sending certificate should be sufficient but it's not for most customers. They asking for certificate and then sending form with questions that are covered by BRC standards anyway.
But without customers our business wouldn't survive so How to satisfied them ? How you deal with questionnaire like this ? Am I right to say NO for sending procedures. I'm sure they wouldn't even read them.
Thanks for all opinion
Betty
Hi Betty,
I think the old adage-"the customer is always right" might well apply here!- depending on the size of the contract and how much your company needs it and the kind of relationship you have with them-and how likely they are to go elsewhere- i would seriously consider just giving them what they want!
I worked with a company a few years ago who had a contract with a major UK retailer-the retailer insisted that they move to a new factory (if they wanted their contract renewed)-even though the one they were in was fit for purpose and met all legislative and contractual requirements- after careful consideration....they moved!!
Regards
Mike
Hi
I'm working for QA department and part of my job is responding to our customers self assessment questionnaire. I don't know how I should respond to customer who asked me in that questionnaire to attached a copy of my procedures that I think are intellectual property of my company. The last one has one page of documents to enclosed. In my opinion ridiculous. If I would attached all this it will be about 100 pages of documents. And yet they asked for copy of HACCP - what should I sent ? All HACCP documentations (50 pages at least) ?? I understand that they are some important things like CCP but asking for all HACCP !
We are accredited against BRC standard and sending certificate should be sufficient but it's not for most customers. They asking for certificate and then sending form with questions that are covered by BRC standards anyway.
But without customers our business wouldn't survive so How to satisfied them ? How you deal with questionnaire like this ? Am I right to say NO for sending procedures. I'm sure they wouldn't even read them.
Thanks for all opinion
Betty
Hi Betty,
Have to agree with Mike. If that is what the customer wants then why not send them? I know some customers are very demanding but this seems like a quick win - copy a few documents and put them in the post - and the customer is happy. I would send the HACCP plan as that is what people want to see usually.
I would much rather be able to copy documents and send them rather than have to complete a long winded and onerous questionnaire.
Regards,
Tony
One response, assuming geographically possible and yr top management agrees, is to simply re-iterate yr
IMEX, the previous posts might precipitate some new QA job hunting in the not too distant future.
Rgds / Charles.C
If I was in your situation I would send all the companies certificates - quality food safety organic everything.... Important work instructions you can send as well, but most of the times sending the certificates is enough. You can say in your email that the HACCP document X is checked by the auditor during the BRC audit or that it is required by the BRC standard.
Good luck!
Anne
Try to draw a line a see where it goes. Chances are it will go further based on the size of the customer. If your customer has cofidential agreement than intellectual property does not really stand up. We do, at the very least, watermark all documents that we send out with a "Confidential" and put on customer name and date so if it would show up somewhere than we know where it came from. You should also only send a secure pdf or some controlled format.
Trust me, there's very little that's secret in the food industry!
I would send HACCP flow and a CCP summary, I think you are right in that if you send the whole plan it won't get read!
As both a sender and filler in of questionnaires I get both sides of this one and it does seem to be different for everyone. To anyone writing a self assessment questionnaire to send out I would say that it is more likely to be completed if all the questions are relevant to the supplier concerned. There is nothing worse than filling in every question with Not Applicable as something always gets missed!
With regards the BRC certificate not being enough for customers, even BRC say that their audit is a samplng exercise only and I'm not sure our customers would let us get away with only a certificate as a method of approval so I think we are stuck with self assessment for the forseeable future.
Might be worth asking if they would accept the HACCP flow diagram and summary of CCPs. I wouldn't have thought the main issue was secrecy though (blimey I could have a stab at pretty much any HACCP plan from a quick look round, not saying it would be a good HACCP but it normally would match what exists!
) Anyway, my main issue is HACCP is forever evolving. Whatever you send will be out of date within a couple of months so it's just a paper exercise.
Trust me, there's very little that's secret in the food industry!
Right On!
If they want info-and the info might help you to get a contract- then send it!- there are much easier ways to steal a haccp plan than pretending to want to buy stuff!
Not food related but around 20 odd yrs ago on my postgrad TQM course i did a study on two car manufacturers(no names no
pack drill)- the both had what was then BS5750 - to cut a long story short- they had both achieved the standard- but one of them subsequently had problems because if you slammed the car door too hard-the paint fell off!
If i was choosing between two potential suppliers who both had a particular 'standard'- i personally would want to see some of the 'workings' behind it before making a decision!!!!!!.
Regards
Mike
Not food related but around 20 odd yrs ago on my postgrad TQM course i did a study on two car manufacturers(no names no
pack drill)- the both had what was then BS5750 - to cut a long story short- they had both achieved the standard- but one of them subsequently had problems because if you slammed the car door too hard-the paint fell off!
Regards
Mike
Yes slightly
Exactly the problem with the 5750/9000 series standards originally in that the emphasis was based on how well a system was documented rather than how well it performed.
Regards,
Tony
Yes slightly
Exactly the problem with the 5750/9000 series standards originally in that the emphasis was based on how well a system was documented rather than how well it performed.
Regards,
Tony
Hi Tony -sorry, yesmaybe off topic-but used to demonstrate a valid point(IMO anyway)-namely in an age when everyone has every certification going, rather than assuming they are all identical and picking one from a hat- you have to dig a bit deeper and find the 'added value' to decide who to contract with?-or i suppose we could just accept the certs at face value.... cross our fingers.... go with the cheapest and wait to see if the paint falls off!
happy days!
Regards
Mike
I certainly hope that none of the above pro-disclosure camp are part-time Nuclear Physicists.
I'm also wondering if employment contracts are legally able to state what they like in all countries or perhaps things like freedom of speech trip in for some locations.
Rgds / Charles.C
In someways all are right and wrong.
If the customer is a supermarket with there own online systems, the common things of a QMS system to attach would be a minimum of the Haccp CCP's, Study and flow of the products that their are taking. You would also put on factory plan and a few policies and copies of third party cert's
If this is a paper request and you have BRC etc then just attach the Certificate with the report and any responses to non-conformance's. This covers the "Procedures" questions. Regarding the HACCp just add the CCP summary and the flows for the products that they take.
This cover the customer if they are supplying supermarkets etc.
If they require any other info they will come back and ask.
Hope this helps
Dear All,
I certainly hope that none of the above pro-disclosure camp are part-time Nuclear Physicists.
I'm more in the ' pro-getting the order camp'-
and i don't think it is unreasonable for a potential customer to want to see 'the workings' behind the cert-after all some companies will meet the standard-others will blow it out of the water- if i was the customer doing a quality/price exercise i personally would like to know which it is!
Regards
Mike
In someways all are right and wrong.
Sitting on the fence ?
As a matter of interest, do the "pro" people put "confidential" at the bottom of their procedures ?
Rgds / Charles.C
Yes make them come and audit you, this way you can see them reading the documents they would have filed in the 'for future reference' drawer.I don't believe in hiding things, but I do think the story is always best told in person and on-site.
I would send them the latest copy of any certificates along with audit reports (if you're brave enough) and invite them to audit you at their leisure.....and then just hope they don't take you up on the offer.
Regards,
Simon
Other slight problem nobody mentioned....language... Everything is fine if you're in the UK of USA. But I'm not going to translate all the workinstructions in English or in German. When I show the documents to a customer during an audit they understand that it's only in Dutch.
But I guess it also depends on how BIG the customer is....
Yes make them come and audit you, this way you can see them reading the documents they would have filed in the 'for future reference' drawer.
Regards,
Simon
I was Technical Manager of a multi-product site that had 50 - 100 audits per year.
You may have a different view if you had been through the same experience.
You have to do something mostly because the various standards say so. Yes I know its all part of due diligence, but due diligence is only defined when case law looks at a specific issue during a prosecution for a food safety offence and I am not aware of any case law related directly to the absence of a questionnaire.
The practicalities of auditing all of your suppliers for the most part prevent this happening so you end up using questionnaires.
Everybody gets them and most companies steal the best bits and put them in their own versions so you end up with an ever expanding questionnaire asking for all sorts of information. A questionnaire should only ask for information which is important to the purchaser.
You send the questionnaire back and what happens to it? Mostly its a cursory glance, tick the box and put in the filing cabinet. In probably about 20% of the audits I do when I look at the questionnaires I see things which raise the question "Why are you using this supplier?" For example no pest control, no hazard analysis. (suppliers need to complemented on their honesty sometimes!)Without reviewing the questionnaire it is as I said just a ritual.
Perhaps a dangerous line to tread, but I woul advocate only putting in the minimum information. If they really need to know they will come back.
As ever, there are exceptions, and these depend upon the size of the customer, the size of the supplier (ever got a questionnaire back from companies like Heinz or Kelloggs?), the business relationship and the nature of the material supplied. If you are providing a material which is to be sold under the customer's own label then it is reasonable to provide pretty much whatever the cusomer wants. They will take the initial ownership of any problems/prosections that may arise. If you are providing an off the shelf material, the purchaser doesn't need to know how often you do a glass audit or any of the other more trivial questions.
Sorry for the rant. It probably hasn't helped the initial post, but its a subject that frustrates me.
... Also different client are mentioned in the rapport...maybe you don't want to share that.
I have also found that auditors are becoming more and more critical of their own wording in audit reports. The last auditor we had from a customer re-worded parts of his report 4-5 times while he was here.
I have. Well about 30 a year pre BRC and yes it was a total nightmare, if I wasn't hosting an audit I'd be making corrective actions or writing nice responses to customers. Almost a full time job. Three cheers for the BRC.I was Technical Manager of a multi-product site that had 50 - 100 audits per year.
You may have a different view if you had been through the same experience.
Nothing like a bit of Xmas Spirit.
I found yr comment interesting. Does it mean that BRC packaging has had a much more user-friendly result in eliminating Buyer's own-audits as compared to BRC food ?.
Even admitting that packaging is presumably a much lower generic risk than food and that, I guess, the former standard was a late starter, I get the feeling that the "Pack" standard has positively resisted some of the more annoying "Food" idiosyncracies, eg randomly inserting multiple risk assessment requirements. This was one reason I was a little shocked regarding the appearance of the "FI" criterion in another thread, signs of a possible unification on the "how can we make things more complicated > (max. due diligence + auditor profit)" principle.
And yes, i am naturally suspicious.
Rgds / Charles.C
PS - sort of amusing how the thread title has led to posts on BRC
I am also working in Technical department . For customer questionnaire what i do is send them BRC certificate & our Self assement in detial( 10 pages) which includes breif decription abotu all policy ( as per BRC) thats it .
I have replied to many custmoers no one insisted for complete the questionnaire.
If you have need any further information send me message.
cheers
Min