Consuming Expired Products
Started by kitleen, Aug 14 2009 04:12 AM
Hey Guys,
My colleague and i got into a healthy debate today regarding consuming of expired products.
Being in the food industry, we know that processes such as sterilization, pasteurization and retort kills microorganism and so removing any threats and aseptic filling ensures that the product is shelf stable... because of it, many of the products are able to stay sterile till open.
Question now here is, will you consume expired products? the affected product i would like to refer to is spaghetti sauces. they are all bottled packed and their vacuum seal is still intact. however, they have all expired and the management is considering of selling them off at a very reduced price.
knowing all this infomation and being a consumer will you consume expired products?
If you consume expired products, till what extend ?
Note: Best before dates means after that date, the manufacturer is not held responsible for any liability.
My colleague and i got into a healthy debate today regarding consuming of expired products.
Being in the food industry, we know that processes such as sterilization, pasteurization and retort kills microorganism and so removing any threats and aseptic filling ensures that the product is shelf stable... because of it, many of the products are able to stay sterile till open.
Question now here is, will you consume expired products? the affected product i would like to refer to is spaghetti sauces. they are all bottled packed and their vacuum seal is still intact. however, they have all expired and the management is considering of selling them off at a very reduced price.
knowing all this infomation and being a consumer will you consume expired products?
If you consume expired products, till what extend ?
Note: Best before dates means after that date, the manufacturer is not held responsible for any liability.
I voted yes, after eating 5 years out of date mustard and living to tell the tale I'd eat almost anything. Seriously I wouldn't have a problem eating out of date stuff, depending on what it is and how long out of date it was. So each would be a very individual decision.
In answer to your question I think I would give spaghetti sauces a go - how long out of date are they?
Regards,
Simon
In answer to your question I think I would give spaghetti sauces a go - how long out of date are they?
Regards,
Simon
Dear kitleen,
Personally I would not eat this product after a few months beyond the "best before" however you can certainly find lots of advice (mainly supportive) for the options you are considering (see links below).
I would be interested to know if yr assumption of no manufacturer's liability has ever been significantly challenged in a practical way. I think you might find yourselves vulnerable in the actual event of a food poisonimg incident, particularly to a "sensitive" consumer.
shelf_stable.jpg 149.73KB 56 downloads
http://www.fisheries.....sed Foods.pdf
http://healthlibrary...;chunkiid=42284
http://www.healthlin...ation-date.html
Rgds / Charles.C
Personally I would not eat this product after a few months beyond the "best before" however you can certainly find lots of advice (mainly supportive) for the options you are considering (see links below).
I would be interested to know if yr assumption of no manufacturer's liability has ever been significantly challenged in a practical way. I think you might find yourselves vulnerable in the actual event of a food poisonimg incident, particularly to a "sensitive" consumer.
shelf_stable.jpg 149.73KB 56 downloads
http://www.fisheries.....sed Foods.pdf
http://healthlibrary...;chunkiid=42284
http://www.healthlin...ation-date.html
Rgds / Charles.C
I voted yes.
Labels are a mysterious beats: "Best Before", "Use by", "Safe till", etc. If you can show me a container that is still intact, has been handled correctly and has no obvious signs of spoilage, then I think it is a relatively safe product to still consume.
In fact, there are a lot of stores (think Rite Price in Australia) that make a VERY profitable business selling close-to-date or out-of-date products and with the current economic crisis, it is a booming business.
Labels are a mysterious beats: "Best Before", "Use by", "Safe till", etc. If you can show me a container that is still intact, has been handled correctly and has no obvious signs of spoilage, then I think it is a relatively safe product to still consume.
In fact, there are a lot of stores (think Rite Price in Australia) that make a VERY profitable business selling close-to-date or out-of-date products and with the current economic crisis, it is a booming business.
I voted yes.
Labels are a mysterious beats: "Best Before", "Use by", "Safe till", etc. If you can show me a container that is still intact, has been handled correctly and has no obvious signs of spoilage, then I think it is a relatively safe product to still consume.
Absolutely BB dates are set for quality purposes providing the product has been handled and stored correctly there should be no food safety issues only the quality of the product deteriorates with age (There are a few exceptions such as raw eggs).
However, use by applies to perishable products and this would be a riskier proposition. Depending on the product I would consume a product that looked and smelt ok up to a couple of days after it's use by date.
Regards,
Tony
However, use by applies to perishable products and this would be a riskier proposition. Depending on the product I would consume a product that looked and smelt ok up to a couple of days after it's use by date.
I thought some food poisoning bacteria didn't smell? I'm getting confused now.
I thought some food poisoning bacteria didn't smell? I'm getting confused now.
Simon if you can't spot dodgy old mustard you should be sticking to the Use By date
2 Likes
Hey guys,
Food Safety and Quality is black and white. There's nothing in the middle. If a food item packaging says it's expired definitely this should be disposed properly "record as discarded" due to the reason given. This should be taken out from the premises because if health inspectors saw this item. This could ruin may be your business. make sure to train people to separate and tag expired products if you dont have time or sure whether or not you are to dispose the product -just in case.
Moreover, this should not be served to consumer. For all we know this may be served to a child, pregnant women, etc.. high risk population.
I say, no.
Thanks.
Food Safety and Quality is black and white. There's nothing in the middle. If a food item packaging says it's expired definitely this should be disposed properly "record as discarded" due to the reason given. This should be taken out from the premises because if health inspectors saw this item. This could ruin may be your business. make sure to train people to separate and tag expired products if you dont have time or sure whether or not you are to dispose the product -just in case.
Moreover, this should not be served to consumer. For all we know this may be served to a child, pregnant women, etc.. high risk population.
I say, no.
Thanks.
Hey guys,
Food Safety and Quality is black and white. There's nothing in the middle. If a food item packaging says it's expired definitely this should be disposed properly "record as discarded" due to the reason given. This should be taken out from the premises because if health inspectors saw this item. This could ruin may be your business. make sure to train people to separate and tag expired products if you dont have time or sure whether or not you are to dispose the product -just in case.
Moreover, this should not be served to consumer. For all we know this may be served to a child, pregnant women, etc.. high risk population.
I say, no.
Thanks.
Regards,
Tony
I thought some food poisoning bacteria didn't smell? I'm getting confused now.
Agreed but do you think they suddenly appear the day after the use by date or is there likley to be a safety margin built in ?
Regards,
Tony
IMO I will pay attention much more in case of 'expired products'. As mentionned by Kitleen we work in the food industry and we know that there are some analyses made in strong conditions to assess the product is safe - so in theory we can eat expired products some days after the BBD. no problem for me for canned and dry products, frozen products after smelling and 'tasting' the product.
More watchful for chilled products,
Emmanuel
More watchful for chilled products,
Emmanuel
Dear Penard,
I don't disagree with you but i recall a comment in another thread that in practice, it is rare to see any explanation of the method of dating any products for any parameter, nevermind the sensitive ones. My suspicion is that this is to allow the authorities to avoid specifying the failure rates ("incidents"?) which hv been accepted in the process of selecting the "average" data to put on the label. I hope I'm wrong of course.
Rgds / Charles.C
and we know that there are some analyses made in strong conditions to assess the product is safe - so in theory we can eat expired products some days after the BBD
I don't disagree with you but i recall a comment in another thread that in practice, it is rare to see any explanation of the method of dating any products for any parameter, nevermind the sensitive ones. My suspicion is that this is to allow the authorities to avoid specifying the failure rates ("incidents"?) which hv been accepted in the process of selecting the "average" data to put on the label. I hope I'm wrong of course.
Rgds / Charles.C
Dear all,
Buy it? No way.. But eat it? That's a different kind of story.. Depend on the product, I am still eating some stuffs at home, without noticing it's expired date... If it still smells good, looks good, I will assume it still Okay for me...
Regards,
Arya
Buy it? No way.. But eat it? That's a different kind of story.. Depend on the product, I am still eating some stuffs at home, without noticing it's expired date... If it still smells good, looks good, I will assume it still Okay for me...
Regards,
Arya
2 Likes
Dear Penard,
I don't disagree with you but i recall a comment in another thread that in practice, it is rare to see any explanation of the method of dating any products for any parameter, nevermind the sensitive ones. My suspicion is that this is to allow the authorities to avoid specifying the failure rates ("incidents"?) which hv been accepted in the process of selecting the "average" data to put on the label. I hope I'm wrong of course.
Rgds / Charles.C
I suppose this depends on the culture of the organisation. I have worked at companies where I found extended shelf life had been put in place to overcome planning deficiencies. Needless to say I put that situation right.
In other companies where there was a quality ethic and a desire for excellence I have applied stringent shelf life controls with the total agreement of senior management.
Retailers in the UK have codes of practice for the determination of shelf life and would require evidence a product meets the cop criteria before product launch. I would normally work to the most stringent combination of these.
Regards,
Tony
Depending on what you want to do with the expired product I have two anwes to the question.
Yes, I would make a decision about my own willingness to take the risk of getting poisoned - I'd probably eat the sauce and stay healthy.
No, under no circumstances would I sell the products on: you never know who buys them and does what with them... IMO it's impossible to carry the responsibility. Just imagine: anything could happen to the poor immunocompromised customer who eats the sauce and then gets sick. I would never be able to prove that it wasn't the sauce I sold that caused the troubles!
Regards,
Matt
Yes, I would make a decision about my own willingness to take the risk of getting poisoned - I'd probably eat the sauce and stay healthy.
No, under no circumstances would I sell the products on: you never know who buys them and does what with them... IMO it's impossible to carry the responsibility. Just imagine: anything could happen to the poor immunocompromised customer who eats the sauce and then gets sick. I would never be able to prove that it wasn't the sauce I sold that caused the troubles!
Regards,
Matt
There are few issues here.
1. Regarding extending of shelf life: In my factory, we have 3 quality issues regarding shelf life: microbial levels, moisture levels (our prducts are dry powders, so increase in moisture can cause spoilage), and essential functionality properties (such as taste, peroxide value, water holding capacity etc., different one for each product).
I regularly extend shelf life- I get a representative sample, test it for these 3 issues, and if the product is still inside the parameters we defined (and validated by our R&D team), I extend shelf life.
Of course, this is not relevant to perishable and fresh products, or to any product where the shelf life is clearly defined by a standard or government regulation. Thankfully, our products are not part of this.
2. Regarding sell of out of shelf life products: we have a nice case here. An improter who had a chain of stored. He'd buy close to end of shelflife products (usually high-class candies, such as tobleron or lindt), and sell them much cheaper. We always know to check the shelflife before purchasing. But about a year ago, a reporter found out that he put a new label on the product (needed anyway because the need of translation) and then put "normal" shelflife. There was a cryout. I can't find really cheap candy anymore.
3. Regarding consumption of expired products: in my family I am considered the "expiry taster". I am asked to say if a product is still good and consumable. My criteria are usually as follows:
1. If the package is damaged- throw it away. It includes, for example, rusted tins.
2. Any obvious spoillage: positive pressure in tins, mold growth, etc- need I say more?
3. If the expired date is looking too much (for example, over a year on a 2-year stable tin of tomato paste), I'd rather not test it. But that's more than a hunch than anything else- I once ate a 10 year old tuna can and it was better than fresh.
3. For shelf stable products, I otherwise take the expiry date as a recomendation. As long as the smell is okay, I taste it. As long as the taste is okay, I use the product. If the taste is not okay, than I try not to throw up but throw away.
4. For dairy products and chilled salads, I take the expiry date quite seriously, but for FIFO cause, usually. As long as the product doesn't spoil (mold on cheeses that needs no mold, curdling of the milk, such as. Yoghurt and butter never spoils), it is consumable. One exception: if the smell or taste changes, I throw it out immidiatly.
5. For ready to eat dishes, usually frozen leftovers, I try to smell. If no untypicla smell occurs, I overkill it in the microwave to kill any bacteria that tried to grow there. And then I don't let anyone else to eat it. Little toxins are good for the phagocytes :)
4. Regarding sale of almost-expired product: if the shelf life is dictated by law or regulation, don't even bother. If the shelf life is self-defined, than I think you can sale them, but make sure that it's more than obvious that the shelf life is very short. If people are bothered by end of shelf life, they won't buy; if the low price is an incentive, they'll know the tradeoff (and will consume it quickly). But never, NEVER suggest in any way that the producer is sanctioniong consumption after shelf life unless you have the proof that the product is stil lin good quality- otherwise, you're liable.
1. Regarding extending of shelf life: In my factory, we have 3 quality issues regarding shelf life: microbial levels, moisture levels (our prducts are dry powders, so increase in moisture can cause spoilage), and essential functionality properties (such as taste, peroxide value, water holding capacity etc., different one for each product).
I regularly extend shelf life- I get a representative sample, test it for these 3 issues, and if the product is still inside the parameters we defined (and validated by our R&D team), I extend shelf life.
Of course, this is not relevant to perishable and fresh products, or to any product where the shelf life is clearly defined by a standard or government regulation. Thankfully, our products are not part of this.
2. Regarding sell of out of shelf life products: we have a nice case here. An improter who had a chain of stored. He'd buy close to end of shelflife products (usually high-class candies, such as tobleron or lindt), and sell them much cheaper. We always know to check the shelflife before purchasing. But about a year ago, a reporter found out that he put a new label on the product (needed anyway because the need of translation) and then put "normal" shelflife. There was a cryout. I can't find really cheap candy anymore.
3. Regarding consumption of expired products: in my family I am considered the "expiry taster". I am asked to say if a product is still good and consumable. My criteria are usually as follows:
1. If the package is damaged- throw it away. It includes, for example, rusted tins.
2. Any obvious spoillage: positive pressure in tins, mold growth, etc- need I say more?
3. If the expired date is looking too much (for example, over a year on a 2-year stable tin of tomato paste), I'd rather not test it. But that's more than a hunch than anything else- I once ate a 10 year old tuna can and it was better than fresh.
3. For shelf stable products, I otherwise take the expiry date as a recomendation. As long as the smell is okay, I taste it. As long as the taste is okay, I use the product. If the taste is not okay, than I try not to throw up but throw away.
4. For dairy products and chilled salads, I take the expiry date quite seriously, but for FIFO cause, usually. As long as the product doesn't spoil (mold on cheeses that needs no mold, curdling of the milk, such as. Yoghurt and butter never spoils), it is consumable. One exception: if the smell or taste changes, I throw it out immidiatly.
5. For ready to eat dishes, usually frozen leftovers, I try to smell. If no untypicla smell occurs, I overkill it in the microwave to kill any bacteria that tried to grow there. And then I don't let anyone else to eat it. Little toxins are good for the phagocytes :)
4. Regarding sale of almost-expired product: if the shelf life is dictated by law or regulation, don't even bother. If the shelf life is self-defined, than I think you can sale them, but make sure that it's more than obvious that the shelf life is very short. If people are bothered by end of shelf life, they won't buy; if the low price is an incentive, they'll know the tradeoff (and will consume it quickly). But never, NEVER suggest in any way that the producer is sanctioniong consumption after shelf life unless you have the proof that the product is stil lin good quality- otherwise, you're liable.
I said no because I wouldn't deliberately buy expired food and eat it, however, some things I would have no issue about if they went out of date at home. For example, tinned foods, spices (if they still tasted of something), dried foods if not showing any signs of deterioration, fresh fruit and veg again if they've been stored chilled and not deterorated.
1 Like
Yoghurt and butter never spoils
Believe me they do. Yoghurt tends to spoil due to yeast and mould growth. Butter turns sour (less detectable in lactic butter) and also gets oxidised by light/air which is why you see a yellowing on the outside of butter.
Regards,
Tony
Believe me they do. Yoghurt tends to spoil due to yeast and mould growth. Butter turns sour (less detectable in lactic butter) and also gets oxidised by light/air which is why you see a yellowing on the outside of butter.
Regards,
Tony
You can freeze butter though. I wouldn't eat expired yoghurt but am I being OTT? What are the micro risks apart from yeasts and moulds?
You can freeze butter though. I wouldn't eat expired yoghurt but am I being OTT? What are the micro risks apart from yeasts and moulds?
With moulds there is always a risk of toxin production. There is a small possibility Listeria could grow. It is capable of growing a pH's down to 4.5. There is a tendancy towards milder yogurts and this can mean striking (cooling to prevent further pH drop) at 4.6.
As yogurt tends to be pasteurised at 90 C + for several minutes the risk is minimal as Listeria can only come from post - pasteurisation contamination.
Regards
Tony
I haven't got a clue what you are talking about Tony but it's clear you know your stuff.With moulds there is always a risk of toxin production. There is a small possibility Listeria could grow. It is capable of growing a pH's down to 4.5. There is a tendancy towards milder yogurts and this can mean striking (cooling to prevent further pH drop) at 4.6.
As yogurt tends to be pasteurised at 90 C + for several minutes the risk is minimal as Listeria can only come from post - pasteurisation contamination.
Regards
Tony
Regards,
Simon
I would neither take a chance (being a food safety professional) with high risk foods nor suggest that expired foods may not necessarily cause a problem.
But my opinion may change for some low risk foods like sugar, spices,etc as I prefer to look for signs of spoilage, except for canned foods.
But my opinion may change for some low risk foods like sugar, spices,etc as I prefer to look for signs of spoilage, except for canned foods.
Absolutely not for me, but what I think about Best Before dates (these are required by law), so it's possible that the given BB date is only a precaution when the product reaches the shelf limit that the manufacturer wants for safe consumption. I even heard that BB dates have likely 2 months allowance for safe consumption. But still its a NO-NO for me, but its up to you
-Harvey C.
-Harvey C.
Yes, I would eat expired food. for the same reasons as other members already detailed (especially the post itay.sh says it all very well).
However my life partner will not. And I make sure that I won’t give my life partner anything that is expired (sensitive intestines)
Yes, I would buy expired products for personal use, if it is very cheap. Then again referring to the post of itay.sh to check the packed products. E.g. sliced cheese in MAP, candies, cookies/pastries, dry products, etc.
No, A food company can NOT sale expired products without proper validation of food safety and product quality. Reasons are also mentioned in all previous posts. I like to add, if you are selling a branded product, los of quality after shelf life is an issue to be considered. If consumers buy your product cheap, because it is (almost) extended and they do not like the taste (because of end of shelf life) they will not buy your product again and might be even share their experience with other consumers. So beside the food safety risk, the legal risks, the risk of bad media attention, there is also a commercial risk.
Dear Kitleen,
Your start post is now 5 months ago.
Can you tell us, what you/your manager has done with the products and what have been the experiences?
However my life partner will not. And I make sure that I won’t give my life partner anything that is expired (sensitive intestines)
Yes, I would buy expired products for personal use, if it is very cheap. Then again referring to the post of itay.sh to check the packed products. E.g. sliced cheese in MAP, candies, cookies/pastries, dry products, etc.
No, A food company can NOT sale expired products without proper validation of food safety and product quality. Reasons are also mentioned in all previous posts. I like to add, if you are selling a branded product, los of quality after shelf life is an issue to be considered. If consumers buy your product cheap, because it is (almost) extended and they do not like the taste (because of end of shelf life) they will not buy your product again and might be even share their experience with other consumers. So beside the food safety risk, the legal risks, the risk of bad media attention, there is also a commercial risk.
Dear Kitleen,
Your start post is now 5 months ago.
Can you tell us, what you/your manager has done with the products and what have been the experiences?
I hope Kitleen has considered about the risks involved on selling the expired products.